[DFTB-Plus-User] How DFTB+ manages atomic charges?

giacomo buccella gek.buccella at gmail.com
Tue Nov 22 14:48:01 CET 2022


I'll with default mixer then, but what about the temperature? Why should I
increase it up to 1000 K when I want reaction dynamics at 300K?

Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 14:44 Bálint Aradi <aradi at uni-bremen.de>
ha scritto:

>
> > Being aware that charge transfer reactions should be treated with other
> > methods, I am however trying to simulate the impact of different ions
> > with a polymeric surface (at 300 K).
> > Here's another issue: the runs are incredibly slow. This of course makes
> > me think I'm doing something wrong.
> > Can you please take a look and provide some tips to speed them up
> > (besides increasing the core number) ?
> > Please find attached an example of calculation, which performed only
> > 17-18 steps in 24h.
>
> Your system converges quite slowly for some reaons. I've raised the
> temperature to 1000 K to ease convergence, set SccTolerance to he
> default value, used the default (Broyden) mixer with the default
> parameters. On my 6 years old laptop, I've managed so to run your system
> for 10 geometry steps within 5 minutes and 12 seconds (using 4 threads)
> with the serial Conda-binary, so I should be able to do ca. 3000 steps
> per day.
>
> If it is considerable slower for you, you are either using too many
> threads/processes or your build is completely broken.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bálint
>
>
> >
> > Many thanks
> > Best regards
> >
> > Giacomo
> >
> > Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 11:50 Bálint Aradi
> > <aradi at uni-bremen.de <mailto:aradi at uni-bremen.de>> ha scritto:
> >
> >     Just a quick note on this. Given the rather small size of our
> >     Hamiltonian (as compared to ab inito DFT calculations) and the fact,
> >     that we do not need to carry out integrations during the
> calculations,
> >     usually you don't gain much from running DFTB+ on multiple nodes with
> >     only a few hundreds of atoms. So please, always check the scalability
> >     (OpenMP threads or MPI processes) first and choose the number of
> >     threads
> >     or MPI processes accordingly. Otherwise you may end up with wasting
> >     computational resources and also your precious wall clock time.
> >
> >     Best regards,
> >
> >     Bálint
> >
> >
> >     On 17.11.22 14:19, giacomo buccella wrote:
> >      > Dear Charly,
> >      >
> >      > my sistem is nearly 350 atoms. It is not that big, but enough to
> >     be sort
> >      > of unaffordable without using parallel machines, since I need to
> run
> >      > tens of MD runs considering different starting configurations. I
> >     surely
> >      > can run one test with a single thread, just to check how much the
> >     result
> >      > is affected by using long-range corrections.
> >      > Many thanks for your support
> >      > Best regards
> >      >
> >      > Giacomo
> >      >
> >      > Il giorno gio 17 nov 2022 alle ore 14:13 Carlos R. Lien-Medrano
> >      > <cmedrano at uni-bremen.de <mailto:cmedrano at uni-bremen.de>
> >     <mailto:cmedrano at uni-bremen.de <mailto:cmedrano at uni-bremen.de>>> ha
> >     scritto:
> >      >
> >      >     Dear Giacomo,
> >      >
> >      >     I don't know the dimensions of your system but is it strictly
> >     needed
> >      >     that you run
> >      >     the calculation in parallel? Otherwise, you could give a
> chance
> >      >     performing the
> >      >     calculation just in one node using long-range corrections.
> >      >
> >      >     Best regards,
> >      >     Charly
> >      >
> >      >     El jue, 17 nov 2022 a las 7:02, giacomo buccella
> >      >     (<gek.buccella at gmail.com <mailto:gek.buccella at gmail.com>
> >     <mailto:gek.buccella at gmail.com <mailto:gek.buccella at gmail.com>>>)
> >     escribió:
> >      >
> >      >         Dear Bálint,
> >      >         thanks for the kind reply. I've just tried to implement
> Long
> >      >         Range corrections, but it seems that this option is not
> yet
> >      >         available when you run with mpi threads:
> >      >
> >      >         **********************
> >      >         ...
> >      >         Starting initialization...
> >      >
> >
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >      >         WARNING!
> >      >         -> Dipole printed for a charged system : origin dependent
> >     quantity
> >      >         WARNING!
> >      >         -> Dipole printed for extended system : value printed is
> not
> >      >         well defined
> >      >         ERROR!
> >      >         -> Range separated calculations do not work with MPI yet
> >      >
> >      >         *********************
> >      >         Do you have any other advice?
> >      >
> >      >         Many thanks
> >      >         best regards
> >      >
> >      >         Giacomo
> >      >
> >      >         Il giorno gio 17 nov 2022 alle ore 07:54 Bálint Aradi
> >      >         <aradi at uni-bremen.de <mailto:aradi at uni-bremen.de>
> >     <mailto:aradi at uni-bremen.de <mailto:aradi at uni-bremen.de>>> ha
> scritto:
> >      >
> >      >             Dear Giacomo,
> >      >
> >      >             this not DFTB related, but is common for all DFT
> >     approaches:
> >      >             DFT(B)
> >      >             methods tend to delocalize charges. You have one
> common
> >      >             Fermi level in
> >      >             the system, and if you have degenerated (or
> >      >             quasi-degenerated) states,
> >      >             such as likely the atomic level of the N atom and the
> >     VBM of
> >      >             your
> >      >             surface, charge will be distributed between them,
> >      >             independently, how far
> >      >             they are spatially from each other.
> >      >
> >      >             Charge transfer reactions are usually calculated
> >     using range
> >      >             separated
> >      >             functionals (which you have in DFTB as well).
> >     Alternatively,
> >      >             one can
> >      >             also enforce a charge distribution via constraint
> >     DFT, but
> >      >             we don't have
> >      >             constrained DFTB in the official version yet.
> >      >
> >      >             Best regards,
> >      >
> >      >             Bálint
> >      >
> >      >
> >      >             On 16.11.22 11:16, giacomo buccella wrote:
> >      >              > Hi everyone, I'm asking for help about an issue to
> >     which
> >      >             I don't find
> >      >              > any answer in the manual.
> >      >              > I'm interested in simulating a chemical system with
> >      >             excess (or lack) of
> >      >              > charge on certain particular atoms.
> >      >              > The problem is that the after a single MD step
> >      >             (timestep=0.5 fs), the
> >      >              > charge is already delocalized among all atoms in
> the
> >      >             cell. This occurs
> >      >              > even if I'm simulating an ion approaching a
> >     distant surface.
> >      >              >
> >      >              > Example:
> >      >              > I want to simulate the ion N(+) approaching a
> >     surface, so
> >      >             I set the
> >      >              > initial charge of N atom = +1.000 :
> >      >              >
> >      >              > InitialCharges = {
> >      >              > AtomCharge = {
> >      >              > Atoms = N
> >      >              > ChargePerAtom = +1.0000
> >      >              > }
> >      >              > }
> >      >              >
> >      >              > therefore, I expect that at the beginning of the
> >      >             simulation the number
> >      >              > of electrons associated with N would be 5-1=4.
> >      >              > Well, after a single MD step, its charge is
> >     already about
> >      >             4.9, even if
> >      >              > it is still 10 AA away from other atoms in the
> system
> >      >             with which it
> >      >              > could interact.
> >      >              >
> >      >              > My question is: how is this possible? is it
> something
> >      >             related to the way
> >      >              > DFTB+ manages the charge distribution? Do I need a
> >      >             time-dependent
> >      >              > calculation for this?
> >      >              > Any suggestion would be really appreciated
> >      >              > Many thanks
> >      >              >
> >      >              > Giacomo
> >      >              >
> >      >              >
> >      >              > _______________________________________________
> >      >              > DFTB-Plus-User mailing list
> >      >              > DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de
> >     <mailto:DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de>
> >      >             <mailto:DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de
> >     <mailto:DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de>>
> >      >              >
> >      >
> >
> https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user
> <https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user>
> <https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user
> <https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user
> >>
> >      >
> >      >             --
> >      >             Dr. Bálint Aradi
> >      >             Bremen Center for Computational Materials Science,
> >      >             University of Bremen
> >      > http://www.bccms.uni-bremen.de/cms/people/b-aradi/
> >     <http://www.bccms.uni-bremen.de/cms/people/b-aradi/>
> >      >             <http://www.bccms.uni-bremen.de/cms/people/b-aradi/
> >     <http://www.bccms.uni-bremen.de/cms/people/b-aradi/>>
> >      >
> >      >
> >      >             _______________________________________________
> >      >             DFTB-Plus-User mailing list
> >      > DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de
> >     <mailto:DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de>
> >      >             <mailto:DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de
> >     <mailto:DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de>>
> >      >
> >
> https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user
> <https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user>
> <https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user
> <https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user
> >>
> >      >
> >      >         _______________________________________________
> >      >         DFTB-Plus-User mailing list
> >      > DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de
> >     <mailto:DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de>
> >      >         <mailto:DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de
> >     <mailto:DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de>>
> >      >
> >
> https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user
> <https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user>
> <https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user
> <https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user
> >>
> >      >
> >      >     _______________________________________________
> >      >     DFTB-Plus-User mailing list
> >      > DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de
> >     <mailto:DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de>
> >      >     <mailto:DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de
> >     <mailto:DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de>>
> >      >
> >
> https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user
> <https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user>
> <https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user
> <https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user
> >>
> >      >
> >      >
> >      > _______________________________________________
> >      > DFTB-Plus-User mailing list
> >      > DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de
> >     <mailto:DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de>
> >      >
> >
> https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user
> <https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user
> >
> >
> >     --
> >     Dr. Bálint Aradi
> >     Bremen Center for Computational Materials Science, University of
> Bremen
> >     http://www.bccms.uni-bremen.de/cms/people/b-aradi/
> >     <http://www.bccms.uni-bremen.de/cms/people/b-aradi/>
> >
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     DFTB-Plus-User mailing list
> >     DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de
> >     <mailto:DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de>
> >
> https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user
> <https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > DFTB-Plus-User mailing list
> > DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de
> >
> https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user
>
> --
> Dr. Bálint Aradi
> Bremen Center for Computational Materials Science, University of Bremen
> http://www.bccms.uni-bremen.de/cms/people/b-aradi/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> DFTB-Plus-User mailing list
> DFTB-Plus-User at mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de
> https://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dftb-plus-user
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.zfn.uni-bremen.de/pipermail/dftb-plus-user/attachments/20221122/74bdc6cf/attachment.htm>


More information about the DFTB-Plus-User mailing list